Michael Spindler — Direct/Cross/Redirect
288 linesMR. DENNISON: Plaintiff calls Michael Spindler.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Spindler.
THE COURT: MICHAEL SPINDLER, a witness called on behalf of the Plaintiff and Counterclaim Defendant, having been duly sworn by the clerk, testified as follows:
MR. DENNISON: Good morning, sir.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Good morning.
MR. DENNISON: Would you state your name for the record?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Michael Spindler.
MR. DENNISON: Where do you live?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I live in Los Angeles, California.
MR. DENNISON: What's your occupation?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I'm a forensic accountant
MR. DENNISON: What do you mean by "forensic accountant"?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, a forensic accountant does accounting work that is a bit more investigative in nature. So it's essentially taking a look at business records and accounting records in connection with some form of business issue.
MR. DENNISON: How Jong have you worked in that field?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I've been a forensic accountant full time since 1990.
MR. DENNISON: What did you do before that?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Before that, I spent about ten years doing auditing of financial statements.
MR. DENNISON: Can you describe your educational background?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes. I graduated in 1981 from the State University of New York in Albany with a Bachelor of Science degree in accounting and a minor in economics.
MR. DENNISON: Are you currently employed?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I am.
MR. DENNISON: Who's your employer. B. Riley Advisory Services. What's B. Riley Advisory Services?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: It's a national forensic accounting boutique firm that does forensic accounting, business valuations and appraisals, and bankruptcy and restructuring work.
MR. DENNISON: How long have you been employed at B. Riley?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Since January of 2015.
MR. DENNISON: What did you do for work prior to B. Riley?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, it's a long career, so I'll give you the highlights. I spent about 30 years with ,3 national accounting firms as partner at two different firms and also was involved with a couple of forensic accounting boutique firms.
MR. DENNISON: Okay. Do you hold any certifications?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I do.
MR. DENNISON: What are they?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I'm a certified public accountant with licenses from six states: New York, California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and Hawaii. I'm also certified in financial forensics. I'm a certified fraud examiner. I'm accredited in business valuation and certified money laundering specialist.
MR. DENNISON: Do you participate in any professional organizations?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I do.
MR. DENNISON: What are those?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, I've had leadership positions in a couple of them. I'll mention the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners. I was a president of
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I the Los Angeles chapter, and I'm currently on their board. I've been actively involved with the California Society of CPAs. I was president of the Los Angeles chapter that had 11,000 members
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Member of the board of trustees of the CalCPA Education Foundation.
MR. DENNISON: Have you testified as an expert before?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I have.
MR. DENNISON: Approximately how many times? ,,12
MICHAEL SPINDLER: About a hundred times, roughly, about half of that in trials and arbitrations.
MR. DENNISON: What's your typical role in those I cases?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Typically it can take a number of forms, but commonly I "ill testify with respect to the damages.
MR. DENNISON: Have you done any film industry work?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes, I have.
MR. DENNISON: What was that?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I've done work involving all the major film studios. I've also done work on behalf of writers, directors, producers, actors, studio executives.
MR. DENNISON: Your Honor, I would like to proffer Mr. Spindler as an expert in forensic accounting.
THE COURT: All right. Any objection?
MR. ROTTENBORN: No objection.
THE COURT: All right. So moved. Thank you.
MR. DENNISON: What work did you do in this case?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, in this case I was asked to take a look at issues with respect to lost earnings for Mr. Depp.
MR. DENNISON: What in particular did you do?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I looked at accounting records that were produced by Mr. Depp's accounting firm, Ed White and Company. I looked at trial exhibits. I looked at deposition testimony. I looked at some trial testimony. And I looked at various other documents and exhibits in connection with the
MR. DENNISON: What specific period did you analyze with respect to lost earnings?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I looked at the period following the publication of the op-ed. So I looked at the period from December 18th, 2018 through October 31st, 2020.
MR. DENNISON: What materials did you review?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I looked at the accounting records that had been produced by Mr. Depp's accountants.
MR. DENNISON: Any other materials?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Various deposition transcripts, trial testimony, contracts, et cetera.
MR. DENNISON: All right. What conclusions did you draw from your review?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I concluded that Mr. Depp suffered lost earnings of about $30 million.
MR. DENNISON: How did you reach that conclusion?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, there are really two main components to that. The first relates to the loss of the role of Captain Jack Sparrow in the Pirates 6 film, so the loss related to the loss of that role and that franchise picture was $22.5 million, based on testimony provided by Mr. Jack Whigham. In addition, we looked at -- yes.
MR. DENNISON: Did you do anything else with respect to Pirates 6?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, we also calculated the net earnings that Mr. Depp would have received from that.
MR. DENNISON: Okay. And what did you base your analysis of Pirates 6 on?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Based on the testimony of Mr. Jack Whigham.
MR. DENNISON: Okay. What else did you do with s respect to the lost earning analysis that you did?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, the other main components of this is taking a look at all the other roles, the nonfranchise films, so those films, studio films, independent films, and endorsements that Mr. Depp realizes and enjoys. So in connection with that, we looked at his bookings for the year 2017, and by bookings I mean instances where Mr. Depp is hired for a project. And he receives that first money related to that project in 2017. So in other words, you've got a deal, and cash has showed up so it's real. So we looked at his 2017 bookings, and we calculated for that year, for that period, his bookings were about $17.5 million, the main components of that, Mr. Whigham testified to.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: We then looked at the period of time following the op-ed of December 18th, 2018 through October 31st, 2020. So his annual earnings was $17.5 million. In what is known as a typical year, a reasonable base year, at that rate, what would we have expected Mr. Depp to have earned from that period of October 18, 2018 through October 31st, 2020? And we then compared that to his bookings, his actual bookings, for that period of time.
MR. DENNISON: Why did you use 2017 as a typical base year?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, a couple of reasons. First of all, Mr. Whigham testified that that was a typical year for Mr. Depp, and it's also the most recent, clean year that was experienced In 2018, he had the publication of the op-ed That didn't happen in 2017.
MR. DENNISON: Okay. Did you do anything -- did you prepare anything to assist the jury with respect to the analysis that you performed?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: We did prepare a chart, yes.
MR. DENNISON: Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: All right.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Thank you.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Thank you.
MR. DENNISON: Your Honor, I think this is Plaintiffs Exhibit 1240. I'm going to -- I'm not going to move it into evidence. We're just going to use the document, with your permission and publish it to the jury so that the witness can explain it.
THE COURT: Any objection to Demonstrative 1240?
MR. ROTTENBORN: If he's just asking to use it as a demonstrative, I have no objection.
THE COURT: All right. Demonstrative -- well, do you have an electronic copy of it?
MR. DENNISON: We do.
THE COURT: All right. That's fine.
MR. DENNISON: Who did this chart?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I, in combination with people working under my direction from my firm.
MR. DENNISON: Can you explain to the jury what you've done here?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Sure. I'd be happy to. So as we discussed previously, Mr. Depp lost the role in Pirates , and the effect of that was lost Earnings of $225 million, based on Mr. Whigham's testimony. And then what we've shown here is the 10 percent agent commission.
MR. DENNISON: So why did you deduct 10 percent?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Because that's the rate for Mr. Depp's agent. That's what his agent receives out of Mr. Depp's earnings in connection with setting up a project for Mr. Depp.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: So we deduct that 10 percent, which comes to $2,250,000, just 10 percent of 22.5 million. And the net effect of that, this amount that Mr. Depp would have received after deducting that fee, would have been $20,250,000. And that's the first component of this.
MR. DENNISON: Okay. What did you do in terms of the j l O analysis of lost bookings for nonfranchise films?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Okay. So that's the next section of the chart. And as I mentioned before, his 2017 bookings were about $17.5 million. So that rate of earnings over the period from mid December through the end of October 2020, or mid December 2018 through the end of October 2020, would come to about 32.8, $32.9 million.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: We then compared that to actual bookings during that period of time of mid December 2018 through October 2020. That amount was $10,586,000. We deducted those bookings, the actual amounts, from what we would have expected, to arrive at his lost bookings for nonfranchise activity, and that comes to about $22.3 million. And once again, we deducted the 10 percent agent's commission. So the net effect of lost earnings to Mr. Depp after that agent's fee for non-Pirate films, comes to about 20 million dollars.
MR. DENNISON: What does the figure at the bottom corner of the chart of $40,318,000 and -- 40,318,237. What does that represent?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, that's grand total. That's the sum of those two components for total lost earnings of $40.3 million.
MR. DENNISON: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Good morning, Mr. Spindler.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Good morning.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So this lawsuit isn't the first time you've worked with Johnny Depp, is it?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: It is not.
MR. ROTTENBORN: You've worked with him in a lawsuit that he had in the past with his old law finn, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes. Just a little bit of work, yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And so in this second go-round as a paid expert for Mr. Depp, you're making what, $550 an hour is what he's paying you; is that right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: That's the amount that my firm bills. I do not receive that.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Now, the subject matter of your opinion testimony in this case is the economic damages that Mr. Depp has allegedly suffered as a result of Ms. Heard's December 8, 2018 op-ed, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And this is the first case in which you testified as an expert relating to economic damages claimed by an actor, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: First time I've testified to, but I've, done that work before.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you understand that this case is about only whether Ms. Heard's December 1st, 2018 op-ed constitutes defamation of Mr. Depp, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: That's my understanding.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you understand that this case isn't about anything else Ms. Heard has ever said or done, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I believe that's correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And to be clear, you're testifying only as to alleged damages, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So you are not offering any opinion or any testimony on whether those specific damages that you just discussed were caused by the op-ed, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: That's correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you're assuming for the purposes of your report that the damages that you're testifying about were caused by Amber's op-ed, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So you're, therefore, not look into whether anything else that's happened with Mr. Depp's life or career could have caused him economic damages, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I believe that's generally correct, yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So you're not looking at whether the article published in the U.K. in June 2018 calling Mr. Depp a wife beater caused him the damages, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: You're not looking at whether the lawsuit that he brought in the U.K. against the publisher of that article caused him those damages, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: You're not looking at any of the evidence that came out in that lawsuit about alleged instances of abuse against Amber, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: You're not looking at whether the consequences of Mr. Depp's drug and alcohol use have caused him the damages you're discussing, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: You're not looking at whether the worsening performance at the box office of Mr. Depp's movies over time has caused him the damages that you're testifying about, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct. And I'm not acknowledging any of this being accurate. I'm just saying that that wasn't part of my calculations.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Sure. I understand. I just want to make clear what you didn't look at, what you're not opining on. And so to round that out, you're not considering even the impact of Amber obtaining a restraining order in May 2016 and whether that may have caused some damages; that's not part of your opinion, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, since we were taking a look at lost bookings, using 2017 as a base year, any 1 21 activity that preceded that would have been baked into those calculations that way.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And we'll get to those calculations in a minute because I'd like to -- I'm going to put up the chart that you put in your expert report.
MR. ROTTENBORN: But first, I want to talk about Pirates 6 because that's basically the two components of your damages is Pirates 6 and then this nonfranchise lost bookings, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So for Pirates 6 specifically, you assume that he would have made 22 and a half million dollars on Pirates 6, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you took Jack Whigham's word for it in making that assumption, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I based it on his testimony, yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Now, you never saw a contract that Mr. Depp had for Pirates 6, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Because no contract exists to your knowledge, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: So far as I know. I've not seen one.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you didn't take into consideration Jack Whigham's testimony that Disney was noncommittal about Mr. Depp being in the Pirates 6 even before the op-ed, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you didn't take into consideration the press articles that came out prior to the op-ed that suggested that Disney had made a decision not to cast Mr. Depp in Pirates 6, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you have no idea whether Pirates 6 will ever be made, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I wouldn't know that.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you have no idea if Disney has decided one way or the other whether Mr. Depp would be in it or whether they'd offer him a role in it if it is ever made, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, my understanding is that they made public statements that he would not.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you have -- if Disney decided that he wouldn't be in it, you have no idea of when they decided that, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I know that there was a public announcement subsequent to the publication of the op-ed.
MR. ROTTENBORN: What public announcement are you talking about?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I believe there was an interview of Mr. Bailey that was published several days after.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Oh, okay. Well, that interview of Mr. Bailey didn't say that he wasn't going to be in it. In fact, have you looked at the article that the jury saw the headline for yesterday dated November 5th, 2020, about Mr. Depp potentially not being in Pirates 6? Have you looked at that article? I assume not.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Okay. And you didn't take into account Mr. Depp's statement that he wouldn't do Pirates 6 for $300 million and a million alpacas, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: That sounds like hyperbole to me. I didn't take that very seriously.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Okay.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: That sounded like somebody who was a I bit hurt or in pain as a result of the loss of the role.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So if Mr. Depp didn't lose the role in the Pirates 6 because of the op-ed but he lost it for other reasons, then your damages opinion relating to Pirates 6 would drop to $0, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I believe that's correct. If it's not lost for that reason, it's lost for some other independent reason, then I think that would need to be considered.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Okay. Thank you. Now, let's shift gears and talk about the nonfranchise earnings for a moment. You claim this number is about $21 million, right, roughly?
MR. ROTTENBORN: We'll pull it up. Well, actually, we'll look at the chart here. $20 million -- about $20 million after agent fees?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Okay. And to reach that number, you looked at what his historical earnings records showed, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you got that information from Ed White's office?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you assumed that the information you got from Ed White's office was accurate, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I did, yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Could we please pull up the chart that's in his expert report.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Your Honor, this is --
MR. ROTTENBORN: Or, Mr. Spindler, I would like you to take a look at this and confirm for the court that this is the chart that's in your expert report, if you would.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: It appears to be, yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Your Honor, I'd ask for permission to publish this just as a demonstrative.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. DENNISON: No objection.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So, Mr. Spindler, this chart shows Mr. Depp's earnings by year based on the information that you received from Ed White, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: From 2009 to 2020?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And it shows that from about 2009 to 2019, and I didn't add these up visually, but from your report, you say that Mr. Depp made about $459 million, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Now, the two highest-earning years in this time period were 2010 and 2011, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Do you see that? He made about $70 million in 2010?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I do, yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And then the third highest year was 2014, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Made under 60 million. And you'd agree that from the period 2010 to 2020, his annual income on average was decreasing?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes. But you have to look at components of this.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Right.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: And-
MR. ROTTENBORN: And in 2000 -- I just wanted to get your agreement that from 2010 to 2020, his annual income was decreasing.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Now, in 2020, he earned more than he did in 2016, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: On an overall basis, yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And in 2020 he earned more than he did in 2018, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes. Just based on earnings.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And in 2018 and 2019, he earned almost identical amounts, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes. Based on earnings.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And 2019 and 2020 were both after the publication date of the op-ed, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Okay. Now I want to talk about some of these nonfranchise earnings because when I looked at your chart that was displayed to the jury, I didn't see anything specific listed.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So can you just confirm for me that you can't name a single lost business opportunity other than Pirates 6 that Mr. Depp lost as a result of the op-ed?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: That's correct. That's not the -
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you can't provide a single television -- if you could, just answer my questions yes or no as best you can, please. You can't identify a single television project that Mr. Depp allegedly lost out on as a result of the op-ed, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct. That's not the nature of the -
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you can't identify a single advertising campaign or marketing opportunity that Mr. Depp lost out on as a result of the op-ed, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Right. These are the causes of -
MR. ROTTENBORN: So it's fair to say that for the lost opportunities that you can't name, you're assuming, as with Pirates 6, that those opportunities were lost because of the op-ed, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Now, you mentioned something interesting in your direct and in your report. You say that you used 2017 as the base year to calculate what you claim Mr. Depp should have earned in 2019 and '20, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And let's take a look at this, because 2017 he made that much, correct, about 45 million or so?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: But in 2016, he made just a shade over 20, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: 2018, he made a shade under 20, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Same with 2019, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And then 2020, he actually made more than he had in the prior two years or in 2016 and made about, what, 22, 23 million or so; is that right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Right. But as indicated, this is just based on earnings. You need to get -
MR. ROTTENBORN: Right. So you said there -- okay. There are a couple interesting things you said. You said that the most recent -- that 2017, I want to explore why you relied on that. First of all, you said that you relied on Jack Whigham's testimony that 2017 was a reasonable year to use, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct, yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Despite the fact that 2017, he made more than twice as much as he's made in any year over the last five years, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And you say that --
MICHAEL SPINDLER: But take a look at - if I can finish the thought ...
MR. ROTTENBORN: No, no, you answered my question. I want to get to your thought. Because you said that one of the reasons you used 2017 was because it was -- you said, I wrote down, "the most recent clean year," right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And then I think you explained, you said, because the op-ed was written in 2018, right?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: But the op-ed wasn't written until December 18th, 2018, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So if 2017 was clean, then the first 352 days of 2018 were also clean, weren't they, sir?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: If I may explain, Mr. Whigham testified that with the first half of 2018, Mr. Depp chose to take some vacation time. Also, he chose to go touring in the summer with his band. And then he did a film towards the end of 2018. With the publication of the op-ed in December of 2018, that would have impacted the prospects for that film that was done in 2018.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: So he chose to do just the one film in 2018. And then the impact of the op-ed on that film would have meant that it was not a clean period. You could not have looked at that film to get a good sense of what his earnings should have been because he didn't have a chance to earn box office bonuses or pilot participations.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Well, let's --
MICHAEL SPINDLER: So that's why 2017 is a much, much better year to use than 2018.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Well, let's go back -- I think you -- let's break that down a little bit. You said that 2017 is a much cleaner year. But isn't it also true that there were other reasons 2018 wasn't clean, for example, the June -- or the April 2018 article by Dan Wootton calling Mr. Depp a wife beater, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: That did occur that year, yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: The June 2018 lawsuit that Mr. Depp filed in the U.K. against the Sun for calling him a wife better, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And how about the October articles reporting that Disney had decided to move on from Mr. Depp and not cast him in Pirates 6, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I'm sorry. What effect would that have had?
MR. ROTTENBORN: Well, it came before the op-ed, so it's another reason why 2018 isn't a clean year in your mind, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: No, that's not the reasons why.
MR. ROTTENBORN: An article published two months before the op-ed saying that Disney decided not to cast Mr. Depp, that would also keep 2018 from being what you call a clean year, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: I've described the reasons why I believe 2018 was not a clean year.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Okay. Now, you're aware, as we talked about, that Amber's op-ed wasn't published until December 18, 2018, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: So Mr. Depp could not have lost out on any opportunities as a result of the op-ed prior to December 18th, 2018, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And he couldn't have lost out on any opportunities in 2017 as a result of the op-ed, fair?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Fair.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And he couldn't have lost out on any opportunities in 2016 as a result of the op-ed, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And so, in calculating your damages, you didn't use 2016, you didn't use 2018, but you chose to use 2017, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Yes.
MR. ROTTENBORN: And yet he still made more in 2020 than he did in both 2016 and 2018 before the op-ed was published, correct?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Correct.
MR. ROTTENBORN: Nothing further. Thank you, sir.
THE COURT: All right. Redirect.
MR. DENNISON: You explained 2018. Why didn't you use 2016?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Well, first of all, 2017 was a more recent year. 2017 was a year in which Mr. Whigham indicated that that was a typical year for Mr. Depp. He had a studio. He had an independent. He had an endorsement deal. 2016 is further back in time. As I understand it, his earning capacity for that year would have been just about the same or even higher than 2017 because there was an endorsement deal that Mr. Depp passed on that would have been worth a lot of money, according to Ms. Jacobs. So 2017 made the most sense.
MR. DENNISON: Why did you ultimately use the method that you did to determine the lost earnings?
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Because it just made sense. It's the correct approach to take. You're taking a look at what Mr. Depp would have been expected to earn in a typical year, and then you're comparing that to the period of time where you're analyzing following the op-ed from December of 2018 through October 2020. So you're taking a look at what you would have expected him to earn. It's very simple, compared to what he actually did earn.
MR. DENNISON: No further questions, I Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Is this witness subject to recall?
MR. DENNISON: Yes.
THE COURT: Sir, since you're subject I 1 s to recall, do not discuss your testimony with I anybody. But since you're giving expert testimony, you're free to stay in the courtroom, okay? Thank you, sir. Have a good day.
MICHAEL SPINDLER: Thank you very much.
THE COURT: Watch your step there.
THE COURT: All right.